One of our subscribers sent me this story today. We all knew this one was inevitable when the latest iPhone commercial rolled out — now didnt we?
“Oh joy! I can’t wait for the next ground delay or long taxi due to weather somewhere to get a smart ass with a freakin I-phone shoving it in my face saying “It’s NOT raining there… SEE !” Too late … already happened to me. We push back, get advised of a ground stop in MEM due to storms in the area. Go to the penalty box and wait. My Captain does the lecture over the PA… not one minute later, we get dinged from the F/A “Some guy with an IPhone says the weather is good, and wants to know what the real reason is for the delay. Is something wrong with the plane?”
I want to tell this clown what he can do with his IdiotPhone – but the Captain does it even better. He gets on the PA and makes the following announcement :
“If the passenger with the IPhone would be kind enough to use it to check the weather at our alternate, calculate our fuel burn due to being rerouted around the storms, call the dispatcher to arrange our release, and then make a phone call to the nearest Air Traffic Control center to arrange our timely departure amongst the other aircraft carrying passengers with IPhones, then we will be more than happy to depart. Please ring your call button to advise the Flight Attendant and your fellow passengers when you deem it ready and responsible for this multi-million dollar aircraft and its passengers to safely leave.”
Needless to say, the pax was pretty embarrassed. The F/A later told us the rest of the plane was outright laughing at this dude. What a clown.”
For more commentary on that commercial check out:
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2007/11/16/askthepilot254/index.html
So the pilot of an airplane took time to insult and belittle a passenger who disagreed with him?
Seriously? Instead of just ignoring him or just saying “Okay sir, we’ll double-check that information”? Just something to get him quiet.
Wow.
No wonder Americans despise the airlines.
Matt: So a blog commenter took the time to insult and belittle the pilot of an airplane who took time to insult and belittle an anti-social iPhone fanboy who clearly could benefit from having a well-soaked sock in his mouth?
Seriously? Instead of just ignoring him or just saying “I’m an iPhone fanboy and I can’t stand you humiliating my fellow fanboys”? Just something to admit being hypocritical in suggesting modesty.
Wow.
No wonder everyone hates fanboys.
lol that’s hilarious, that’s what we call an armchair pilot.
It may have shut him up, but it probably cost them a customer -forever. The airlines constantly lie -or if you prefer, tell customers things that they don’t know to be accurate in order to placate them- about the reasons for delays. The reason that commercial works is because we don’t trust them, the reason we don’t trust them is because we’ve all been fed bull in the past..
Yawn…
Yet *another* pop at anyone who has an iPhone – really?
Firstly the passenger was completely reasonable to say that he’d checked the weather forecast, and so I gather – was asking if there was anything wrong with the plane. Given airlines very often don´t tell passengers the full story, it’s again reasonable to ask. The medium he used to get the weather forecast is completely immaterial. Would you say the same if he checked the TV or radio weather, then asked the same question? Of course not, it´s just a cheap shot at anyone with an iPhone.
Aside from anything else, the pilot’s response is not only unprofessional, it´s also patronising, arrogant and only serves to put off customers.
IMHO these people that constantly feel that they have to put down anything that seems “popular” are far far worse.
It absolutely amazes me that people (like the passenger on the plane and a number of the posters here) seem to think they know better than commercial airline pilots, air traffic controllers, weather forecasters, and everybody else involved in managing flights. Whether or not the above story is true or just an urban legend it does a good job of demonstrating that commercial flying is a complex process with a LOT of variables involved. Weather is just one of those variables, and it’s a big one.
When a pilot says that they are delayed due to weather it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s raining/snowing/tornado-ing at the departing or destination airport. It also may not be weather conditions that the general public would see on weather-related websites. Aircraft departures and arrivals can be delayed simply by heavy cloud cover. Even on a clear day if winds are above a certain level and/or the temperature is too cold then rules restrict how long ground crews can remain outside without a break. If there are unusual wind patterns at the airport they could cause dangerous wind shears that might necessitate delaying arrivals/departures. How many weather websites mention wind shear in their forecasts? I seriously doubt the iPhone provides that information.
During the flight itself the altitude, speed and direction of the jetstream and the temperature of the air have major impacts on flight times, in-air routing, etc. Most airline flights I’ve ever been on aren’t instantaneous either, so weather forecasting is critical in planning safe routes. Would you want to fly from California to New York across the plain states in the middle of the summer during the height of tornado season? The conditions in the central US known as “tornado alley” might be calm when your flight leaves San Diego but would you really want to find yourself flying over Oklahoma a few hours later when conditions are perfect for tornadoes? Even though tornadoes don’t reach altitudes as high as commercial jet traffic they can certainly throw debris up in the air that pilots need to avoid. Even small sticks or leaves kicked up from a tornado could be enough to knock out a jet engine. In parts of the world where there is volcano activity, pilots have to make sure they avoid areas where ash may be suspended in the atmosphere since it can clog engines.
Weather can also have indirect impacts on airline traffic across the US and even around the world. The corridors that commercial aircraft fly in are so congested that weather delays at one airport can result in delays at other seemingly unrelated airports. Suppose your flight from California to New York is going through Dallas. Poor weather in Chicago may cause delays in flights between Dallas and Chicago, which would impact all flights in and out of Dallas, which means your flight from California to Dallas to New York would be delayed as well.
All of these are just examples of how weather can impact flights. If a flight crew says they’re delayed due to weather do you really care which one of these types of reasons is the cause of the delay? Your flight is still delayed which is ultimately all you care about. It may make you feel a little better informed if the pilot says you’re delayed due to thunderstorms in the path of your flight vs. delays caused indirectly by bad weather at an unrelated airport, but are they really being deceptive if they just attribute the delay to “weather”?
According to the Boeing website there were 18 million commercial flights worldwide in 2000. That’s over 49,000 flights a day. It’s not at all unlikely that delays at unrelated airports will cause problems to the entire flow of aircraft given that huge number of flights and the relatively small number of airports.
So the next time you’re told that a flight is delayed due to weather try to think a little bit about the wide variety of ways that weather can impact a flight. It might prevent ground crews from preparing your airplane as quickly as they could. It might force your flight crew to find a way to fly safely around bad storms. It might just be too windy for your plane to take off or land safely.
Want a good visual representation of airline flights in the US? Check out the videos at http://users.design.ucla.edu/~akoblin/work/faa/
Hilarious. If the pilot’s glib response means one less arrogant chucklehead is taking up a seat, then all the better.
Backseat drivers drive me insane in my own car. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to have backseat fliers.
iPhone users should know by now that whatever they do will be used to get the word “iPhone” into an article. If anyone does anything arrogant or stupid and has an iPhone, you need to hide your phone, and you’ll get through without incidence. If you have to, pretend you have no phone, for the good of mankind and good journalism everywhere.
Dude was arrogant. Pilot fell for the troll. Both suck. All was blamed on iPhone. Weather and air-traffic is complex, but that part wasn’t blamed on iPhone. Yet. I guess you’ll all assume I’m a fanboy, but I’m saying “same story with a Blackberry — doesn’t even make news”. I blame us (readers) as the idiots feeding this “blame iPhone” troll.
Here area few points, in no particular order:
• It’s odd that there’s is errant perception that the iPhone “invented” the ability to get weather information and radar images on a cell phone. Uhm, this is not new.
• If anybody wants to put people on particular *sides* in this issue, put the flight crew on the passengers’ team. They want to get in the air as much as the customers do. They also take orders from the tower. They do not go “Geez, it looks a little grey out there. Let’s sit here for a few hours instead.”
• Imagining that your iPhone (or any other free, consumer site) has better weather data than the airport is laughable. Cut it out; you’re making my sides hurt.
• This, if you car at all, wasn’t a ding on the iPhone per se. It was a ding on the way that the guy with the iPhone behaved. If that makes all iPhone owners look this way, then take it out on arrogant dorks like this guy.
• Maybe it’s just me, but I seriously doubt the pilot said what was claimed here. However, I hope I’m wrong. 🙂
Is it just me, or does anyone else not also think the fanboy should have his iPhone turned OFF as requested by the airline staff once the airplane pushes away from the gate? The article clearly states they had pushed back before the ‘tard decided to get snarky, so technically, he’s already in violation of aircraft safety. Who cares if he decides to no longer fly the airline? Maybe he’ll learn to shut up and follow instructions next time.
True, airlines lie to passengers about what is wrong with an airplane or the reason for being late, but so does every industry. You have to tell white lies at times, otherwise crowds get out of control.
Wether the guy had an iPhone or anything else is irrelevant, the fact that he questioned a weather forecast provided by the FAA, weather service, control tower, whoever… is pretty idiotic. Instead of just sitting back and watching a movie or listening to music, or browsing photos… something more useful with his iPhone, he decided to question the weather forecast and announcement and be a total jerk about it.
The airline may have lost a customer, but the trouble many businesses have is being okay with losing certain types of customers. That particular customer is one I would never do business with for any amount of money.
2 cents from an usability advocate and someone who hates needless conflict.
Regardless of the technology used, or the complexity of the situation, if the exchange happened as advertised, the plane crew was beyond unprofessional and ultimately counter-productive to their own goal… compliant passengers.
Are people stupid sometimes? Clearly. But questioning a given reason when you have evidence to the contrary isn’t stupid. It’s curious.
Instead of belittling the passenger, the plane staff could have just as easily taken it as an opportunity to educate everyone on the plane what was happening and why.
Is it complex? Hell, yes. But giving a blanket statement of “Weather” doesn’t impart that complexity. It imparts a sit-down-and-shut-up attitude.
How would the situation have played out if the pilot would have said, “Folks, we have some questions about what it means when we say Weather Delay. While we’re waiting, we’ll tell you what’s involved in that…”, and go into the same discussion, but with a whole different goal.
What you come out of that with is a plane load of passengers who now understand and appreciate the complexity of the situation, who appreciate the honesty and integrity of the crew, and most-importantly, who are now mini-disciples spreading the word about the effort and complexity that is involved in getting a million-dollar plane off the ground, and how awesome the people are that make it happen safely 49,000 times a day.
Will follow-on questions happen? Sure. It’s called discussion, and usually good things happen from that, like safer practices, more efficient policies, better public image, etc.
If passengers and plane staff are on different sides of the fence, it’s one that’s in place due to ignorance and arrogance. Fortunately, both of can and should be corrected.
End of rant.
As a pilot in training myself, I don’t think anyone realizes how hard it is, or how much you have to keep up with. Especially with heavy grade aircraft. Yes, it was responsible for the passenger to check the weather, but that’s as far as it should have gone. He could have asked a steward or stewardess if something was wrong and should have been happy enough with the answer of a crew member, instead of harassing with the pilots.
Before all of you iPhone fankids start digging into the Captain for speaking up, you should realize that most likely, the iPhone person who questioned the Captain really has no idea just how much math and calculation is involved in calculating fuel consumption, following the proper airway vectors, and well, even booking a flight plan. Every aircraft that takes off, save aerobatic aircraft and joy flyers, have a flight plan of some kind. Something that is booked with subsidiaries of the FAA to keep everyone safe. Belittling the guy wasn’t exactly the right thing to do, however keep in mind if that pilot is like any other commercial pilot, he is over-worked and under payed. He most likely has at least 15,000 hours of flight time (That is no joke, a good friend of mine who flies for Southwest has 18,000 hours. I’ve read his logbooks), so it is understandable for him to have done so. Because if any of you work at Kroger, or Target, or any retail store… do you honestly ENJOY dealing with people? This is just a job to him.
Now I’m not saying the iPhone user was wrong. Or right. He did however overstep his realm of knowledge. It would take a great deal of time to explain to someone who just walks onto an aircraft just how you plan a flight plan. And really only the pilots would be able to do that. And I guarantee to each one of you, none of you, or I, or anyone other than a seasoned pilot, that anyone would understand it the first time. Not because they MAKE it complicated, but because it just IS complicated.
The airlines don’t always tell you everything. It’s true. But do any of you want to sit there and listen to the explanation? Would any of you understand it? I’m not bashing any of you. I just want you to question that in your heads. It isn’t the iPhone’s fault. It’s the commercial with the ‘pilot’ who portrays an unrealistic ease of flight planning’s fault. Because where do you think this person got the idea? Television.
I wonder if the weather at Starbucks is the same as the weather at flight altitude…
I mean really when I go to check my local weather, I don’t want to know about rain or sleet or wind shear at X-thousand feet.
And coincidentally I don’t presume myself to be a better judge of flight conditions than the Pilot, the Ground Crew and the Flight Controller.
Then again I could be falling for the Propaganda that the Airlines give you rather than the “truth”.
left wing nut at 27 ft lbs and clear for lift off
It seems to me that with all these posts about weather patterns and the numerous factors that go into planning flights, everyone is missing the point of the story. Some idiot with an iphone bought into Apple’s propaganda so much that he thought owning an overpriced toy had increased his value as human being so much that he knew better then everyone involved in ATC. Basically he saw a stupid commercial, that anyone who has ever watched TV should have found dubious, and thought he would be the hero of the moment because he owned and iphone. This is what I hate about apple. They try and sell you a lifestyle in the form of overpriced electronics. And I think that people who buy into the image of being a hip, trendy, artist because they own a powerbook, or somehow being better informed or more productive because they own an iphone are stupid cattle with less money because of it. That’s why everyone enjoys picking on these fanboys. They’re too busy thinking they’re better then everyone else to realize they’re allowing an idiotic marketing campaign to tell them how to act and spent their money.
It seems to me that with all these posts about weather patterns and the numerous factors that go into planning flights, everyone is missing the point of the story. Some idiot with an iphone bought into Apple’s propaganda so much that he thought owning an overpriced toy had increased his value as human being so much that he knew better then everyone involved in ATC. Basically he saw a stupid commercial, that anyone who has ever watched TV should have found dubious, and thought he would be the hero of the moment because he owned and iphone. This is what I hate about apple. They try and sell you a lifestyle in the form of overpriced electronics. And I think that people who buy into the image of being a hip, trendy, artist because they own a powerbook, or somehow being better informed or more productive because they own an iphone are stupid cattle with less money because of it. That’s why everyone enjoys picking on these fanboys. They’re too busy thinking they’re better then everyone else to realize they’re allowing an idiotic marketing campaign to tell them how to act and spent their money.
I wouldn’t fly an airline that was this insulting to a passenger. Then again, I wouldn’t fly an airline that I didn’t trust when they gave a reason for delay. This is why I don’t fly American or United.
“One of our subscribers sent me this story today”… did he go by the name Fake B. Logger? This story sounds very, very fake. I don’t suppose you asked for any corroboration.
I received a similar email:
I heard one about how an astronaut had an iPhone… I mean an IdiotPhone (LOL), and… um… launch control said there was a delay because of weather. But this idiot astronaut with an IdiotPhone (ROFL)… he said that um there wasn’t bad weather. Because he’s so stupid! And then mission control said “IdiotPhones (LMAO) are for stupids! Does it calculate fuel and shit?” And everyone laughed at him! Bwahahaha!!!
The End
Maybe the Captain should have just returned the aircraft to the gate and called for security. Which part of turn off all electronic devices did the “dude” not understand? It’s announced on every flight, and he ignored it. Failure to comply with crewmembers’ directions is a Federal Offense.
If the passenger was polite in his query, politeness should have been returned. However, non-compliance can have dangerous consequences. That is what needs to be emphasized.
Bena makes some good points… but screw that idiot anyway. I hope he got his ass kicked after they got off the plane.
iPhone kettle, this is the airline industry pot calling. You’re black.
For an industry considered to be one of the worst when it comes to customer service, this is pretty rich.
Maybe if the airline industry was one with good customer service and a history of communicating to its customers instead of lying to them about delays, this jackball wouldn’t have gotten the notion to pull out his iPhone and question the pilot.
Moral of this story: People trust the information on weather.com more than they trust what airline employees tell them. That’s just sad.
I am a Captain for a major airline. For one thing, I never lie to my passengers. My company may lie to you, but I don’t. It’s not worth the trouble to try to BS any passengers. By the way, why did this passenger have his IPHONE turned on in the first place? It is a federal offense to have any type of device that communicates with the outside world while on an active taxiway. The guy was lucky he wasn’t arrested. I fully agree with the Captains response. A little curt, but appropriate. The traveling public does not have a clue how much responsibility airline pilots have, or the important decisions they make each day. All this in the name of safety. From the time we enter the weather room for the flight papers to the time we set the parking brake at the destination, we are there making the RIGHT decisions to deliver all of you to your destinations safely. Does ATC play a roll in this? You bet. The ATC system is to blame for at least 70% of all delays. 25% is do to traffic volume, and maybe 5% is due to maintenance problems. Trust me, the flight crew are not the bad guys here. So please cut us a little slack…unless you want to come up to the flight deck and fly the airplane. I’d love to trade places with you for a good laugh!
Happy flying!
I think one of the earlier comments said that they don’t trust what their pilots say? I think that is absurd that you would trust your life with a pilot but not believe what they say about the delay. I am an airline pilot and have never lied to passengers about why we are delayed. Why would I want to hide what the real reason is? Do I think they are going to be more upset or hate me more because it is mechanical instead of weather. I think that jerk in the back got what he deserved. If I have passengers in the back who are lawyers or doctors or teachers, I don’t sit around and second guess their professional decesions, I don’t try and help them do their job, so why can’t they just leave their nose out of my job. It is in my best intrest to get people to where they want to go and on time, so why would I do anything different. I think passengers hate not being in control and people like that guy have to do whatever they can to assert their control over other people.
If you have a genuine question, there is a good time to ask, and any pilot will be more than willing to answer, but questions like the one above asked at that time and in that mannor are designed to undermind the the best judgement of the captain.
I don’t think people understand how vast and compilcated the airline system is. There are so many different parts that are involved in getting people and baggage from point A to point B and there is no oversight over the whole process, so you have a lot of little pieces working together, but also working independantly. The pilot can almost never say when they can go, they have the most power of saying not to go if a situation isn’t safe.
So please, trust your pilot. He isn’t going to lie about why you are delayed, and he wants to get you to where you are going on time and safely. Just don’t question our competance in an area you know nothing about, just like I am not going to question you in your job that I know nothing about.
Spare me the bullshit about giving the airlines a break. It simply isn’t the pilot and crew’s fault for weather or most any other delay. The fact is, however, that delays have gotten out of control. It’s not just oops, a 30 minute boarding delay here or there, it is “air traffic” bullshit constantly, sitting on the tarmac for hours, it has happened to me on every flight except three legs since April, and I fly all the time. The system is fucking broken. The iPhone shit is beside the point. The ad is fucking ridiculous, the iPhone dude on the plane is obviously an idiot, but please get over the hate and start demanding that the government start upgrading our air traffic system.
Good on the captain… People nowadays simply think they know enough to do everything with their stupid little brains… Come on, why the heck did u pay for a ticket then? Why don’t u just go rent a plane and fly to the destination yourself if you think the pilots are trying to screw you over? It simply doesn’t make sense at all. Losing a customer like this wouldn’t be much of a loss to the airline, as he’s probably making stupid demands on other flights as well.
To all the pilots on here: have you ever seen ground staff lie to passengers, either saying it was a weather delay (for mechanical) or mechanical (for load factor or aircraft/crew scheduling problems).
If you’ve NEVER seen this happen, then you’re entitled to comment. Otherwise, I side with the iPod boy.
In my travels (in the back) I’ve seen what I believe to be both these actions several times.
First of all, this story is more than likely urban legend.
Secondly, I have seen ground staff “lie” to passengers. It’s usually because they don’t have a clue either. Not saying all ground personnel don’t know their jobs – just that usually the ones who “lie” are the ones who are the most misinformed. Pilots, on the other hand, will never deliberately misinform passengers as the nature of the delay. As someone already stated, we want to get there as much as you do.
Finally, the congestion problem. I’d say the blame here needs to be about 70/30, with 70% assigned to the airlines and 30 to the federal government. Actually, I think it’s probably more like 90/10, but I digress. The problem with the airlines is the overscheduling of flights. Just picking a random place here – Allentown PA doesn’t need 5 flights a day to Newark on 50 seat jets. Two 737s will do the trick. But then why don’t the airlines just do that? Well, there are a myriad of reasons, but the biggest is that PASSENGERS desire more frequency. I don’t blame them – I’d hate to have to get up and catch a flight at 5am just to sit in Newark for 5 hours before my connection leaves. So instead the airlines schedule flights every 3 hours – now you leave Allentown at 8am, arrive at 9, and depart on your connection at 11.
So where should the airlines draw the line? Well, the truth is that they won’t. They won’t do it until the federal government steps in to regulate numbers of flights, and we all know that that will never happen because of all the lobbying and corporate/political greed.
About the only thing that might get done is for the Next-Gen Air Traffic system to get put into place, but even that won’t help. The best analogy I’ve heard so far is to imagine that the airport is the mall. The “Thanksgiving Express Lane” is another HOV lane into the mall. The Next Gen Air Traffic system will allow for more entrances into the mall. But if there aren’t any more parking spots available, everything will be just as (if not more) backed up. The biggest issue is not enough pavement at airports.
[/rant]
Oh yeah, the iPhone thing. Passengers – the pilots won’t lie to you. Most likely if your iPhone is telling you the weather is fine, it has to do with weather enroute, at altitude, at your destination, or somewhere else in the country that might affect your route or traffic along/near your route. You already trust your pilots with your life regarding the operation of the airplane. Trust them to make the right preflight decisions. That’s what they get paid to do.
Assuming the story is true, there’s a way for Apple to get back at the pilot. Apple should design the next gen iPhone to provide exactly what the pilot asked of the passenger. It’s just a software upgrade, better weather service with a database to deal with fuel, routes, add some flying lessons, etc. “…Here you go Captain, take this heading for 2 hours at 25000 feet and we’ll be able to leave now.” pwned 😉
Passengers need to relax and know they’re in very good hands. So far, I only had positive experiences with the crew. They are the pros.
You notice it’s never Holliday Inn Express customers or Geico customers who pull this. I’ts the worshippers of the Cult Of Jobs who need to feel validated for having spent twice as much for a gizmo with 2/3rds the performance of comparible devices.
EK (see Nov 20 rant) has the right idea.
The key issue here is not the i-phone or technophobes but the right of a consumer to raise legitimate questions even if they are not based on sufficient knowledge of the aviation system.
This was an opportunity for the Captain to show respect for his customer’s reasonable concern. Instead he/she chose through ignorance or arrogance to insult a customer. I’ll bet that, on reflection, many other passengers did not find the response humorous and it raised a question about how they might have been treated in a similar innocent circumstance. It was an opportunity squandered.
While most pilots I have worked with are great people and would not deliberately insult a passenger for a reasonable question there are always a few arrogant ones who think no one but them ever had a good idea or suggestion.
Read the NTSB’s crash analyses and find out how many are due to poor Crew Resource Management. Interestingly, there is also an older one about a passenger questioning ice on the wing prior to departure, being ignored, and all aboard paying the ultimate price for a clearly avoidable accident.
Similarly, I recall recently seeing an article about a Captain who received similar information from one of his/her passengers and put it to good use – communicating with his dispatcher, refiling his flight plan and getting his passengers out on time.
Decisiveness is an important quality for pilots – but judgment is even more critical. Arrogance leads to poor judgment. Would this same Captain have ignored other relevant passenger information?
The absolute best people I have worked with are professional, knowledgeable and use every piece of information available to make things work – including information from passengers.
To me the Captain’s response shows a serious immaturity, a lack of respect for those who pay his salary and, at the very least, very poor judgment. If he worked for me there would be a very serious review of his qualifications to continue in such an important role.
He/she could be the greatest “stick” in the air but without other equally important skills he/she has no place managing a multimillion dollar piece of my business.